Occasionally, I feel bogged down by the weight of all that’s wrong in the world. However, there are also times when I am wonderfully surprised at the goodness around me and I realize I’ve mistaken cynicism for realism.

The latter is how I felt during a conversation with my friends following the FemCatholic conference. We discussed androcentrism in the workforce, the representation of women in Hollywood, and moving beyond diversity quotas. I’d like to share our conversation because discussions like these are still too rare and I alone couldn’t capture the goodness of our conversation.

I was filled with gratitude, hope, and a geeky feminist thrill as my friends shared their insights and reminded me that, sometimes, just recognizing the evil we face is a cause for hope. I hope the same for you.

Jenn: Do you think representation of diversity matters in media? I was talking to someone in a discussion about the new Captain Marvel movie, and I wondered what you all thought.

Emily: The obvious answer is yes, but what was the other person arguing?

Jenn: The opposing argument was that a person’s character and growth isn't determined by the fact that they have seen themselves represented on screen. They argued that girls can still grow up to be powerful women if they don't see female presidents or female leads in movies. And I agree, but I think society has taught girls that they are supposed to be quiet and non-aggressive, and seeing fellow women stand up for themselves helps.

Emily: I feel like girls get mixed messages from Hollywood and society in general. I don’t think I was ever taught to be “quiet” or meek... if anything, I got the distinct impression from almost all post-1960s media that being a strong or good woman meant being sexy and alluring, while also proving your worth and earning the respect of the men around you, who would naturally dismiss you otherwise. So now I’m not sure what I want from Hollywood - I guess for women’s stories to be told without having some sort of agenda. But does that mean that we have to wade through this frustrating time when female superhero movies are scrutinized to this extent? Maybe.

Jenn: That's totally fair! I just don't think we can say, “Well, girls will get by with male presidents and all male leads in movies.” And I don't think girls should have to. It should be just as normal to have a female superhero as it is to have a male superhero. And the fact that we have had 20 Marvel films leading up to Captain Marvel says a lot.

Emily: Totally! I find it fascinating to think about just how many of our assumptions about life come from the fact that the masculine experience is considered normative. Exhibit A: The modern workplace and career trajectories are not at all designed for women and our bodies. Also, “women’s health” is reduced to our (in)fertility, as if it’s some special add-on technology that men didn’t get, but otherwise we’re exactly the same. Oh, and we’ve started to tell women to stop apologizing instead of considering that maybe men need to apologize more.

[T]hink about just how many of our assumptions about life come from the fact that the masculine experience is considered normative.

Laura: I've found it interesting how women's careers are inevitably slowed by having children. For example, in accounting you don't have time for having kids until you're a manager, and that could be 6 or 7 years into your career. At that point, you’re racing the clock to some extent. I think we're moving away from the breadwinner/homemaker model, but there are still challenges.

Jenn: @Laura We're definitely moving away from that traditional model. What I find interesting (I don't know if this is society in general or just my observation) is that we're focused on women getting married and having children young (i.e. in their 20s). However, we don't exert this same pressure on men. This disparity is confusing to me because who am I supposed to marry when you're telling the men my age to be moving up the corporate ladder instead of focusing on marriage?

Laura: I'm actually a proponent of later marriage because I think you know yourself better, but our biological clocks do stress me out haha

Emily: @Laura I think it’s tragic because women have so much to offer the broader world, but our society is set up for men to be in the workplace and women in the home. We’re at a point where we want and have women in the workplace, but that workplace wasn’t designed for us.

We’re at a point where we want and have women in the workplace, but that workplace wasn’t designed for us.

Laura: It really wasn't designed for us. I was intrigued by how KPMG (one of the big four accounting firms) provides golf lessons for the women it employs because so many deals are made on the golf course, so women not knowing how to golf has been a barrier to them entering this kind of deal-making situation.

Jenn: @Laura Wow, I've never thought of that.

Emily: @Jenn I feel like most of the “messaging” I’ve got from media is, “Hey, there’s plenty of time to get married when you’re thirty or forty” - which is not entirely true if you’re a woman who wants a lot of kids . Granted, a lot of women don’t fall in that category. Regardless, it’s such a male-focused way to think about things: “Get everything in order before you add perks, like a spouse and kids.”

Emma: About the media thing - I'm irritated that we don't have current movies that validate being a wife and mother as a career. The only women who do that in movies now are the ones in 50 Shades of Grey, which is a completely warped and perverted example of a male-breadwinner marriage.

Emily: @Emma Amen. What bugs me is Hollywood keeps coming out with movies about how women can do what men do even though everyone doubts them, or the remakes of male-centered movies where they’ve just swapped in female characters - and it’s not creative at all.

Jenn: I disagree a bit here. Women are definitely more empowered than we used to be. But, I feel like a lot of my life has been "Oh, do you have a boyfriend?" or "When you get married and have kids..." and it’s nice to see a film where that's not what's happening. I'm not at all trying to downplay women whose dream is to be a wife and a mother, but at the same time I feel like that's what I've been told I have to be throughout my whole life.

Jenn: And @Emily I do agree that we need to stop putting women in originally male roles because we are different. We can do what men can do, but also we can be our own person. And Hollywood: you're allowed to write strong female characters that are sensitive and empathetic, because those are some of our strengths. I think Wonder Woman did an excellent job of showing strength and fighting as the men could, but was also very caring in nature. Her strength did not diminish her sensitive side.

Hollywood: you're allowed to write strong female characters that are sensitive and empathetic, because those are some of our strengths.

Jenn: But @Emma I do want to say that Hollywood could do a better job of representing wives and mothers, as well. I think a lot of the films where women are portrayed as mothers and wives do that mainly to drive the man's storyline.

Emily: @Jenn That’s totally fair. Where I take issue with the typical Hollywood portrayal (and there are exceptions, of course), is that it feels forced and unrealistic. I think that’s one of the reasons why I prefer historical films and shows: the women often have to prove themselves and push back against discrimination, but the story itself isn’t really about that. They’re allowed to just be people. But I do agree that we need a variety of women portrayed, so there isn’t just one portrayal of how to be a woman. And yes, WONDER WOMAN IS GOALS - for exactly that reason! She never feels like she has to prove or defend herself, she just is herself. Marveling at ice cream and babies in one moment, and then charging into no-man’s land in the next.

Jenn: @Emily I like that - that women are allowed to just be people. And that, in itself, is empowering. Not having to be meek, sexy, powerful, or any of the conflicting things society tries to tell us we have to be…we just are.

Candace: I think the biggest issue with Hollywood is that few people can write women as complex character. They are either just a wife and mother with no personality, or they are an empowered badass that still doesn't have a personality. Hollywood pretends that they can't do both because, in a male dominated world, women need to fit into a singular mold. This is why I love Wonder Woman and Agent Carter: both women are badasses, and they are also interested in love, and they struggle because (news flash) no one is perfect. I think Hollywood has this idea that if a woman is a badass, that's all she can be and she must give up her femininity to be that, because obviously only those that aren't feminine (i.e. men) can be strong because our society has conditioned us to think that men = strong and female = weak.

Jenn: @Candace This is why we need more women hired as writers, producers, directors, etc.!

Candace:

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Note: some names have been changed for the sake of privacy.